Every so often, we have a "Question and Response" day at church. I like to post those here, as well. We had some great questions. I certainly don't have all the answers, and I welcome comments and discussion!
1. Would it be possible to have small Communion cups for people who can’t see so well?
Yes! Thank you for asking! And I encourage you to always ask questions like this. Speak up for what you need to better connect with God. I can’t promise that we’ll always be able to make it happen, but we certainly can’t if we don’t know. Thanks for asking, and let’s do it!
2. What does the Bible offer us?
We call the Bible the “Word of God.” That means different things to different people, but let me share what it means to me.
In the first part of the gospel of John, it says, “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” It’s talking about Jesus, Jesus as the Word of God. The Greek word that’s used is “Logos.” In ancient Greek culture, the idea of “logos” was some kind of wisdom or consciousness that permeated everything and was involved in creation. So the gospel writer is using that idea and applying it to Jesus, saying that Jesus is the Logos of God, Jesus is the Word of God, Jesus is the wisdom or consciousness that permeates everything, that was involved in creation.
And then John says that the Word of God became a human being. “The Word became flesh and made his home among us.”
There’s a theologian named Karl Barth who took this idea and thought, well, if Jesus is the Word of God, then how is the Bible the word of God? This is what he came up with, and I think it makes a lot of sense.
Karl Barth says this: God is really, really interested in communicating with humanity, in having a relationship with human beings. God is so interested in that that God became human, basically to communicate with us. God communicates in lots of different ways, in prayer, in the actions of the prophets recorded in the Old Testament, in fact, God can communicate in any way God pleases - Barth’s famous example is that God can communicate even through a dead dog on the side of the road. A little grisly, but true, right? God can communicate any way God wants.
And at the same time, we don’t have any control over whether God communicates or not. That’s totally up to God. There are some places, like the Bible, where God frequently chooses to communicate. But not always. We can’t force God to communicate. We have to look where God has chosen.
And the one place that God has chosen to communicate completely - not just to communicate a little bit about who God is, this is not just a brief text message from God or just a voicemail on an answering machine, this is God showing up at our door - the one place where that has happened is in the life of Jesus. That’s why Jesus is the “Word of God.” Because in the life of Jesus, God has communicated God’s own self to the world. God has said, “This is who I am. This is what I want from humanity. This is how much I love you.” It’s not that Jesus’ words are the word of God, but Jesus’ whole life, from beginning to end, everything he said and did, is the Word of God.
So if that’s the case, if Jesus is the number one place where we get to see who God is, what life is for, how we ought to live and think of ourselves, then what we really need, two thousand years later, is lots of folks to tell us about Jesus. Because we weren’t there. So that’s what the Bible is. In Karl Barth’s view, it’s really not quite right to say that the Bible is the Word of God. That’s Jesus and Jesus alone. The Bible is the witness to the word of God. The Bible tells us about the word of God. In the Old Testament, the Bible shows us the culture, the religion, the traditions and stories that formed Jesus, the culture and religion and traditions in which God chose to be born. That has got to be relevant for who God is - God could have chosen any place, any time, and God picked that place and time. So we should get to know as much as we can about it. And the New Testament describes Jesus, the Word of God, based on the accounts of those who lived with him.
So that’s what I think the Bible offers us: the clearest window that we have into who God is, what life is about, how we ought to live, and how we ought to think of ourselves. That includes great comfort and great challenge, but most of all it includes knowing that we are here for a purpose, that we are loved just as we are, and that God is still working in our lives.
3. If all Christians go to heaven when they die, where do all the rest go?
This is a huge question, and entire books have been written about it. I highly recommend Love Wins, by Rob Bell, which looks closely at what the Bible actually says, is easy to read, and brings up a lot of the questions that all of us naturally ask. You may not agree with Rob Bell’s conclusions, and that’s okay – it’s still a great overview. I also want to say that I have had to make choices here about what to include and what to leave out. I have my own beliefs about this, which inevitably color my response. I am not right about everything, and I am still learning. You are welcome to disagree or to come to different conclusions. I also recommend reading the Bible on your own to come to your own answers. A good place to start for this question is by reading Luke and Romans.
Overall, the Bible is pretty quiet about what happens when we die - it’s just not the main subject, life right now is the main subject. Much of what the Bible does have to say on the subject is metaphorical, including the book of Revelation and many other passages. The passage I find most helpful in thinking about what happens when we die is from 1 Corinthians 15, where Paul says that life after we are raised from the dead will be so different from life now that it’s like the difference between a tree and a seed. Again, a metaphor, but I find it helpful because it basically says, “No, we don’t really know exactly what life is going to be like after death, but we can trust God that it will be good.”
But we want to control it, don’t we? We want to know the itinerary, we want to read the guidebook, we want to know that it’s worth going, we want to know the road map of how we get there. And we want to make sure that all the people we love are going to get there, too.
So let’s see what the Bible says about going to heaven. And again, the Bible doesn’t give us a clear road map: Do x, y, and z, and you get to heaven. In fact, it goes back and forth between two ideas: your actions are key, or the grace of God is key. There are passages like Matthew 25, where Jesus is talking about the end times and separates people based on whether they’ve fed the hungry, welcomed the stranger, taken care of the sick. In these passages, it’s clear that what you do determines whether you go to heaven or not. And there are other passages that emphasize that it’s only by God’s grace - by God’s free gift - and it has absolutely nothing to do with human actions. Paul, the writer of Romans and many other books of the New Testament, held to this view quite consistently, though he also says that a good life is important. That second view, that grace is key, is where most Protestant churches have landed. A good life is still important, but the good life is the evidence of God’s grace, not the thing that makes us deserve God’s grace.
So how do we get to heaven? If it’s by God’s grace, does that mean that it’s by claiming the opinion that Jesus is God and that his death and resurrection get you to heaven? What about people who do what Jesus said but aren’t sure whether they can even believe in heaven? What about people who claim Jesus but don’t even make a hint of an effort to follow him? What about those who lived before Jesus, or before worldwide evangelism, or in some other way never heard about Jesus? What about your kids or brothers or sisters or friends who you love, people you believe that God created out of love, but who don’t believe in Jesus?
Many Christians, including me, believe that all those people will actually go to heaven. And many of us feel some guilt for believing that - like we’re somehow twisting faith, we’re cheating somehow. But even though it feels like cheating, we can’t help it. We just can’t get ourselves to believe that a good, loving God could love our kids, our brothers and sisters and friends, any less than we do. We just can’t get ourselves to believe that a good, loving God could condemn someone to eternal punishment based on one mistake. But sometimes we feel guilty for believing that, because the overwhelmingly more publicized Christian position is that some will go to heaven, and others will go to hell.
But as we already explored, the Bible has very little to say about heaven and hell, and much of it is metaphorical. Here are three different positions that all have solid Scriptural support - even though they’re not all widely publicized. And it’s not cheating, it’s not twisting Scripture, it’s really just looking at what does the Bible say. Three positions with solid Scriptural support:
-Position A: The widely publicized position that some go to eternal heaven, a big party with God, and others go to eternal punishment. For instance, Matthew 25:46 “They will go away into eternal punishment. But the righteous ones will go into eternal life.”
-Position B: A much less publicized but still Biblical position: some go to eternal heaven, a big party with God, and others are destroyed completely. For instance, the famous John 3:16, which promises that whoever believes in Jesus will have eternal life - the opposite implied is not eternal punishment, but eternal death. There are other passages that support this as well.
-Position C: God keeps giving us chance after chance to accept the gift of heaven. There is no arbitrary cut-off line set at death. There is no “too late.” As Romans 8 says, “I’m convinced that nothing can separate us from God’s love in Christ Jesus our Lord: not death or life, not angels or rulers, not present things or future things, not powers or height or depth, or any other thing that is created.” Death is explicitly listed there. Nothing can separate us from God’s love in Christ. There are other passages that support this position, as well.
As you may be able to tell, this is the position that makes the most sense to me. I don’t think it excludes the idea of a temporary punishment or cleansing after death. In fact, it makes sense to me that we would all experience some kind of cleansing after death. But there is no clear Biblical argument that death is the last chance, period. There are a couple of verses that seem to hint at that, but in my opinion, they are far from convincing. In my view, the whole direction of scripture points to love that does not stop giving second chances. The whole story of Israel, the story of the prodigal son, Jesus’ life and death and resurrection, the Bible is full of a God who does not stop giving second chances.
So the question was, “If all Christians go to heaven after they die, where do all the rest go?” Others may answer this differently. There’s Scriptural evidence for different positions. But my reading of Scripture, my knowledge of God, my experience of love, says that nothing can separate us from God’s love, not even death. That eventually, we will all gladly accept the free gift of heaven that God offers.
Again, I recommend Rob Bell's Love Wins. A more technical discussion can be found here.
4. Why do people go to church?
I think you all can answer this better than me. I can tell you why I go to church. First, take a moment and think: why do you go to church?
I love church because I think it’s a practice-run for the kingdom of God. This is like the rehearsal hall for the kingdom of God. Human beings have the privilege and the responsibility of working with God to create the kingdom of God, to create a world of love, joy, peace, hope. We struggle with it and we mess up a lot, but I think that’s part of our purpose in life.
And that’s really hard. It means loving folks who are different from ourselves. It means trying to figure out together what the kingdom of God really looks like, and none of us have quite the same ideas. And even when we agree on what it looks like, we’re often really bad at it. I believe that in the kingdom of God, nobody is afraid to talk to their neighbor. Guess what? I’m still afraid to talk to my neighbor.
So church is the place where I can practice. Where I can try it out, and maybe I say something awful, but here it’s okay because I’m forgiven. Here it’s okay, because I’m loved, and whoever I say that awful thing to, well, they can tell me, so that I can learn and do better next time. At least, that’s church at its best.
I also love church because I really need a lot of help remembering that God is a part of my life. I need lots of spiritual practices. I need to pray and read the Bible and sing every day. I need to meet with folks who will ask me how it goes with my soul. I need to come to church every week and be surrounded with other folks who are hoping to get a glimpse of God. Because if I’m left to myself, I’ll forget. I’ll get caught up in the tiny things of life, in the trivialities, and I don’t mean the beautiful tiny things but the tiny things that start to feel like huge burdens and mountains to climb and terrifying monsters. I need constant reminders that I belong to God, that I am loved, that no matter what I do or don’t do, I am fearfully and wonderfully made.
5. Why are so few coming to church? Where are all the youth?
First, how many are coming to church? We’re going to focus on US trends here, and we’ll see that they are reflected in our local church - and in thousands and thousands of local churches across the country.
In the 1948, Gallup polls started asking about religious affiliation. At that time, 91% of Americans identified as Christian. Ninety-one percent! That held steady for a couple of decades, and in 1975 it started inching down, 87%, in 1990, 82%, in 2010, 76%, and in 2014, 72%. That includes all Christians - Catholic, Protestant, and more. But the group in there that changed most dramatically was Protestant - including the United Methodist Church. In 1948, 69% of the US was Protestant. In 2014, 37% of the US was Protestant. Most, though not all, of that drop has come from folks under 35.
Compared with those statistics, our particular local church has actually stayed much more consistent. We’ve fluctuated some but we’ve generally averaged between 70 and 120 folks on a Sunday over the years - a pretty wide range still. Some of that difference is explained by how people go to church now - many folks who consider themselves regular churchgoers attend church maybe twice a month. Other weeks, they’re traveling, they’ve got other commitments, they’re working. Many of our most faithful members simply can’t be here every week. That was the case far less often fifty years ago. Many more folks came to church basically every week. So even though the number of folks involved in the church has not dropped dramatically, the average Sunday attendance has gone down noticeably.
But that certainly doesn’t explain everything. It doesn’t explain how in 1948, 69% of the US was Protestant, and in 2014, 37% of the US was Protestant. That kind of huge change - that represents millions and millions of people - that means a few things. First, it means that nothing this particular church has done or not done has caused this change. There was never a magic formula to get folks to come to church. There was no program that could have reversed this change. There was no huge mistake in our theology or our approach to Battle Ground or our choice to be a United Methodist Church or in our leadership or anything that has caused fewer people to be going to church. This is happening in basically every church, basically everywhere in our country. There are exceptions, but those exceptions also don’t have a magic formula or program or perfect theology.
Fewer people in church, and especially fewer young people, feels like failure for church. We often have it as our goal to get more people, to reach people for Christ, to, as the mission of the UMC says, “Make disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world.” Those are good things. But if we look at the declining numbers of Christians in America and we feel like we’re failing somehow, I think first we need to look farther back than 1948.
I read this in a blog recently - unfortunately I accessed the blog through Facebook and now it’s lost on the Internet and I’ll never find it again. But this blog claimed - and I think it’s true - that when we compare how many folks go to church now with how many folks went to church in the 1950’s, we’re missing something really big. The 1950’s, this blog claimed, were not by any means the norm of religion throughout history. Rather, because of our national reactions to the Great Depression and two World Wars, that was a time when an abnormally large percentage of folks made it a priority to go to church. In much of western history, while most folks would claim some sort of belief in God, the reality is that a huge portion of folks were Christian in name only - nominally, but not actively, Christian.
In the 1800’s, as folks made their way across the western frontier, the United States was nominally, but not actively - in fact, one estimate is that in 1850, only 34% of Americans adhered to a particular denomination or church. That’s way lower than what we see today. We were nominally, but not actively, Christian.
England was nominally, but not actively, Christian in the 1700’s when John and Charles Wesley started the ministry that would lead to the beginning of the Methodists. Europe was nominally, but not actively, Christian in the 1600’s when Martin Luther and other Reformers started calling for people to live out their Christianity more deeply. Even in the 300’s, when the Emperor Constantine made Christianity basically the national religion of Rome, folks were nominally, but not actively, Christian. And before that, when Christians were persecuted throughout Rome, they were such a minority that they probably couldn’t have imagined a nation where 72% of people claimed Christianity of some kind - and that number was a significant decrease.
And yet, God was working in every one of those times.
We often feel like we’re failing because the number of people who claim Christianity is going down. The number of people in church is going down.
But what I wonder is: What is God getting us ready for? What is the Holy Spirit up to? I don’t really want to be nominally, but not actively, Christian. I don’t want that to be what success looks like. I want to follow the Holy Spirit, even if it’s only a group of twelve. I want to follow the Holy Spirit, even if it means being criticized and laughed at. And I trust completely that the Holy Spirit is leading us somewhere good. I have no idea what that’s going to look like. But I trust the Spirit.
6. Please tell us one thing that Paul did to promote Christianity and build the church that was just beginning. What does that mean for our church?
Paul never gave up on Jesus. Paul was frequently very, very frustrated. He was frustrated with the people he ministered with; too often, they got caught up in spats, or in theologies that Paul didn’t agree with, or they felt hopeless and helpless in the face of persecution. He got mad, he got loud about it, he was thrown in prison, he was almost certainly executed. But he never gave up on Jesus. He never gave up the passion he had or Jesus. How completely all-in he was for Jesus. He never said to somebody, “The Holy Spirit has left you.” He kept praying, he kept showing up, he kept doing anything he could do to show the love of Jesus with every single breath, to as many people as he could. It was largely Paul’s passion that the Holy Spirit worked through to build the church that was just beginning.
7. I was thinking that maybe to draw more young families to our church, that I could organize a “date night” for our community. Parents could drop their kids off here for a couple hours and go out on a date. We could put in The Reflector, the BG Facebook page, and so on!
Yes! Let’s do it! Come and talk to me about details. I wanted to read this one aloud because if we’re following the Holy Spirit, it means trying things. The Spirit frequently doesn’t sit still. The Spirit prompts us, and we get to follow. So thank you for listening to the Spirit, and for taking action on it.
8. Sing some hymns from Godspell
Okay!
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